Agarta Official Design Thread

Okay that's what we know so far:
The Agarta seasteading initiative will in the beginning take the form of a fleet of modules that will exist in a diaspora form all around the world. These can assemble and form "islands" where the conditions are optimal. These will be built in partnership with other countries and the aim is to build an independent platform, dedicated to studying the major environmental and social issues we face as a planet, and provide solutions. For instance Agarta becomes interesting on topics such as overpopulation, pollution, wildlife conservation, scientific research, etc.

There's been talks for a sphere that would contain emergency areas and possibly a food forest.

we should also post claim the last island.
that way have official proof of being the ones who have discovered it.

True. Want me to do it?

There are problems with land claims which need to be considered.
- claims will not be recognised unless the claimant is first recognised by an international body (or an authority within the State of westphalian jurisdiction)
- the physical land must be subject to verification and later survey
- opening a claim before getting recognition for agarta in the proposed format may lead to political exclusions by bodies with more power (physically, financially and politically) than pangaea.
- if you claim it the State you are citizen of has the right to take eminent domain in almost every State on earth.

It may be a more prudent approach is to build the documentary evidence and the case for it being a good place to perform environmental/social/etc impact studies (the published purpose of agarta).
During the time you are building this evidence (including physical evidence of the existence and survey) it would be good to get all the plans (designs systems etc) ready for agarta and get some traction for the concept as described by dragon and yourself in the various posts.

The concept rests on getting significant cooperation and traction from bodies for the environmental social and political research and development agarta is positing.

If you have that first then state a valid non-confrontational case for the location to be the ideal spot for this to happen (as a new environmentally pure location on earth) it could be easier to get the claim through.

Other methods kind of challenge the existing authority structure which guarantees them trying to stop your very worthy endeavours.

Also to be considered is the location (although outside the Antarctic exclusion zone) is very much in the purview of the many patrolling warships of the 5 large military operations in antarctica.

There are enforceable precedents (although no particular law) which they use to stop, board and confiscate vessels ("for their own safety") in that region.
Vessels entering there must sail under a flag and carry written record of permission from one of the State or international bodies which is passed to the various patrolling militaries.

Im not saying not to do it.
Im saying be careful how you do it and make sure we get the procedures in a manner no one can object.

No one can object to the purpose you have stated for agarta.
It would be political suicide.
However they can object to details and procedures not conformed to.

Getting all the so called eminent people on side and using their credentials and ego to build something which you control as a research for solutions to the major problems facing the world, concentrating on marine environments, is how to stop any one from objecting to your motives. No matter what they suspect.

Building agarta and getting real research published, including other people of renown is the method to getting seen as "obvious" that agarta should manage this new land.

Getting that recognition allows you to take it a step further and create the protocols and regulatory structure for its use and visitation (as the military and UN have done in antarctica).

So find a way to use the system against itself to get what you need and build what you need.

True and many things (even things that may seem insignificant) can be launched in the form of initiatives. A company to sell green technologies that release dependence on politically-dubious Asian countries (and increase our funds). An open and online journal to publish research and studies. Random act of kindness and homelessness relief efforts. Everything we do is not only what we stand for, but is also a signal to other countries (including those that'll be interested in teaming up with us).

That being said the financial aspect seems to be the challenge with the highest priority. Not only could we offer good renumeration for the services of experts, but also this will allow us to fund the entire thing without establishing a debt (and potential route for a corrosion of Pangaea's vision) to other organizations.

I agree a lot,with the using the system against itself aproach, actually have thought about that as well, but then more on a local global way for reducing the global amount of waste and corrupt influence over people through overmeasured use of marketing.

when talking about agarta it also is a great idea, but it would first need some more popularity or some form of finances or such that gets us accepted by them. since otherwise they will either try to ignore it(like they did with AFR) since if they pretend they don't know about it then people won't blame them for not doing it. or they will set something like it up themselves as to gain controll over it themselves.

ofcource if we could manage to befriend any such influencial or similar people then that would work as well meaning we don't need prior fame finances or speciffic legal registrations.
essentially for this way to work without us making compromises we need someone who actually has dreams and goals and many of them and strong ones. someone who actually is someone instead of a pretender or empty token.
since if we can get contact with any of them we can quite easily get them on our side, perhaps even go further in the goals of the federation of pangea.
I don't know a lot about many celeberties, also know that many of them have a constant mask and so act very different than they actually are so that makes it harder to find someone more magical, someone with true will and greatness.
someone who wants to create a great future with true freedom to do anything and go anywhere and be anything, to be free.

ego pulling will also work, but we might also need a more socially normal/acceptable person than me for that, while I can design such things my normal personality also tends to often hurt many peoples ego, or their comfort zone and such since I don't really like following rules or thinking like normal inside the box. one example is that I tend to not follow ranks or such and actually hate it when people abuse ranks to try and seem above others.


also good to have you here bigred.

we can look into what people people we know know or have contact with.
I have a aunt who is one of this countries leading nature experts, my uncle is also one of them and I also know one of the other few, and one indirectly meaning I kind of have direct and indirect ties with 4 of the leading nature experts in the netherlands.
I also have a friend who is kind of one of the semi underground planners/part-leaders(even though that group doesn't really have leaders, more just people planning and designing what to do) of one of the biggest and most eminent rebel groups in netherlands(they basically save and protect nature and people, kind of similar goals to us but then they are more focussed on survival and so don't really care about our value C about advancement, they mostly care about point A and B now even though they also do quite some advancement and push it as well but they see that as something that will come/follow naturally and mostly focus on the survival and existance of the world nature and people. he also has contacts in and with most other revolutionairy and rebelion and similar groups(note they are peacefull so non violent). getting him to actually properly participate in this project is questionable since he already does a lot with similar projects but he might have contacts and there might be similar goals(there are actually since they basically are for value A and B from the charter)
then I myself might also have a small chance of getting some people through more alternative ways and some old rebellion like group(their entire focus was on protecting innocent people, especially those who where tallented enough to get bad people to see them like a threat as well(even though that group long disappeared mosly, like most members who had things happen to them or diapeared around the same time(can be expected if you fight against things like kidnapping and criminal groups serious enough that the government does nothing against them or even is bought over by them)) but perhaps some that are still around still use their old contact info. I might be able to get them in/over even though that will probably be withut any refference or link from where they came from for obvious reasons.

I also know someone once suggested me saying something I said about the car company tesla directly to Elon musk and that he would probably diretly hire me then, the way it was said as as well as the statement itself like that is something I would/might do if I where him, and which one couldn't just say about others easily kind of suggesting that person is or knows Elon musk(or is one of those who make bold statements for others). but people say elon musk is chaotic, rebelling/revolutionair/vissonair/dreamer and some other things I don't know how to word now due to me not always being good in these languages. but if that image is right then he might in some way be and act and think kind of like me still very different, but in such things roughly the same, meaning that if I might do something like that(and I have done such things) it would be quite possible for him to also do that, I would also just join random groups which seem to have interesting thigns or goals just to see if something interesting happens.
when I asked that person if he was elon musk I got no answer however, don't know exacly who it is anymore, but still a small chance it might actually be him or someone close.
there also was someone who said his father knew donald trump/met him regularly in hotels or such.
oh yeah and I forgot to say that aunt also is a politician, she had to become one to stop the government from removing all the trees from that place(while litterally the one thing that place is known for is trees(veluwe)) she actually got something like 2/3th (or 1/3th) of all the votes in the village so she has a way with the people, I guess that also has to do with her idea of that everyone is equal. kind of like that one hour one ones time is equal to one hour of anothers time.

ofcource with famous people there are always people who have things against many of them,
but we can't judge them fully neither can we let their past or prior judgements or family or how people see them decide their cource. essentially if anyone decides to follow or join our guidning light and follow both the feeling and the 3 main values, then they have proven to be good atleast in that. even if at the same time one would still also do bad thing, if we can chose between them only doing bad things or also good things then we must choose the second one.

also one last person for suggestion I have which many people might find very weird but it makes actually much sense if you think instead of directly judging. is to get russia or the children from the president and/or who else is most likely to have/stay it/gain power there or become a future president.
this migthbe something people would reject early and hate a lot, but it actually makes much more sense if I explain it, so then this would also need to be explained.
reason 1 is that it can, might and will stop the war in ukraine(we can help stop it then) without anyone needing to hold a grudge or such, end the violence and begin the buildup.
reason 2 is that from hate and sanctions and pain and fear you only get the same as a outcome, we need to show the world a different path, and why not start here now. we can show and guide/help them to actually fix and prevent mistakes, ofcource that won't undoo the dead, but it will prevent or reduce further deads, also know that often when 2 parties fight both are part of the fight, honnestly armies are mostly stupid sicne they always end up harming the people these days instead of protecting them, only in rare cases do they actually help the people from something not caused by armies.

so why would rusia or such people want to side with us?
well easy, much of the world hates them and distrusts them, by joining us and following our ideals(since you can only be part of us if you do) or atleast letting us help or guide them to some extend then that will show the world a change and will kind of abuse the system to automatically make them be and be seen as people who actually want to be good guys.

our main 3 ideals/principles also contain basically everything they are so proud of in communism, in some ways our system is closer to communism than capitalism since we are focussed on rights, freedom, people, nature, balance, and advancement,etc.
we stand for a way less strict/prevalent government or perhaps not even needing a government anymore except for in emergencies and such. but they have little reason not to, and supporting our goals will help guide them back to greatness.
as for the war, I have a simple solution, we as outsiders(anyone not in or close to the warzone or ex-warzone) can not just judge about that. so we need to just make a agreement where we can act as the link between ukrain and russia to have them agree that the civilians/people in/of those areas will be allowed to chose, and it won't go in one or zero, but actually based on regions, or just small sections based on what the people there vote or want(kind of like how in netherlands you have pieces of belgium, very small and completely surrounded by netherlands but still part of belgium) such places should be able to travel to the counntry they want to belong to with ease and in peace without much extra things. people should also optimally have the option to select/choose to become independant fully, in that case it would become a pangean country or something like it(the speciffic region(we actually have a pangean country in ukrain doing kind of that, trying to get a safe and peaceful spot for the people and rebuilding and protecting them). if enough people in a big enough area vote that that might become a country probably keeping it to one is the best, even though well organised and planed micronations might also come but this neutral vote option is kind of a extra we could try to push for, the neutral vote could also just be a country respecting the rights from both sides so beng neutral to anyone in there, kind of like a harbour or on land version of agarta but then more to link those 2 countries so they become more like family again instead of enemies. but they might not want a neutral vote, but even if they wouldn't want to nclude that(even though we should add it in to show countries how bad war is and that the people really don't want it and only a few individuals want it.) but even if they don't want it then we can still easily push the other part about the vote of the people where people chose themselves where they want to be with, since none can really go against that, if the people speak their voice then the countries have no or little reason to go against that. by making it based on votes in a area instead of huge parts at the same time it will be much more fair. for fairness the small section of people and ground close to the war can also be added.
however in essence stopping the war and killing should be enough of a reason for both countries to have to participate.
in the case of russia this also gives a nice reason and way to kind of let go of the war and pledge to be for the people and world again, by starting to follow our ideals.

this might also work with some other countries, in the east for example we have the leverage of their mythology, in some others they just have no reason to go against us. but in this case we have the most easy and rapid solution for stopping the war in ukraine. and it also is one of the most easy ones, right now russia would have a lot of excuses and reasons for starting to follow our ideals, and if they start to do that we also gain a lot since it is a huge country, and has actually had very advacned industry and farming and such, if we get them to join our ideology we can make it a place peolpe all around the world dream of going to, and it will give people around the world way more power and freedom. lets say it this way, there are only a few things in the way of getting them to kind of become the new example for the world, having such a rapid change as to go from making war to suddenly be the opposite, a beacon of hope then it will show the world a lot, russia is also in a position where they are in quite some danger and could easily lose the entire country even if they would win the war due to rebellion inside of the country, and many other countries in the world sidelining against them. if they win the war in ukrain usa migth very well declare a new world war, and other countries will follow.
to them we are also a beacon of hope/their way out of that, we need not look at the past, we need to remember it and learn from it, but we should not prevent good change for the sake of pain and hate created yesterday.
stopping the war is something we could do anyway.
we need to get some group together to support us in stopping the war, then using that we can get in contact with the leaders from both side.

I would also propose the pre-fop-aliance (PFA)(pre-federation-of-pangean-aliance)
essentially it is a aliance in this case both russia and unrain would most likely also enter, this way we can prevent war and mediate kind of. essentially it is not like the un where countries constantly vote over and controll eachother. instead it is just for when we help countries which aren't yet pangean countries, or when non pangean countries are involved, it is solely meant to make sure people keep their promises, as well as having us like a mediator and kind of like keeping a eye on it, as well as giving all those involved help and suggestions. essentially suggestions that will help them and they can chose to use and how to use however they want. but essentially since those suggestions will follow our philosophy they will eventually join us, or atleast get similar ways and ideals it would slowly fix the world by helping them instead of fighting them.
so the pre-for-aliance essentially is like a virtual(note virtual not viritual) version of agarta, so a theoretical version, just a link made by promises and aliance.

Right.

I think we should consider our political options, but also set a priority list, a roadmap. I think the first step is to set the PangaTech company up. Everything we do will require funds. Publishing a website with a fine name? Money. Buy a CDN service with minimal data storage limit? Money. Hire teachers to offer classes in the Online University? Money.

So we need a way to make money. We need a company that's all in order and that can sell products or items. Even if we start small, at least it's a start and we can always grow from there.

In relation to ways of making money, I have many ideas and suggestions.

First, it's important to finish our website, or at least have the most important information there. The website would be one of our main means of discoverability.

Second, we need to have a stronger presence on Social Media (YouTube, X, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Telegram, WeChat, etc.

Third, we need to make and upload content to those social media channels. It should be done often, and we should interact with the people that follow us or send us a comment or message.

Fourth, we should strongly think about participating in TED Talks, and MeetUps. This way we can get more visibility, members, and hopefully investors.

Fifth, we should monetize our website and social media channels.

All of this will take time, but needs to be done if we want to start making money.
I suggest we have follow up virtual meetings or have a management group where we can discuss the progress of Federation of Pangaea. This way we'll have a much stronger perspective of the direction we should head towards.

What do you think?

I think those are excellent suggestions. They will require folks to maintain those activities, which would be no problem if we were to offer renumeration for those different folks. Plus, renumeration would ensure that content remains aligned with Pangaea's aesthetic (often referred to as its "image") and doesn't decrease our credibility.

However for renumeration we need money, hence the need for a company that sells stuff. I know of an online service, for instance, where we can sell T-shirts and we get a part of the profit, while the service takes care of shipping the items to the customers for us. Super interesting, it's small but it's a first step.

Yes, but some with caution.

point 1 indeed needs is important, but right now we also have the uncertainty of the new network.
and we also have to figure out what we can and can't put on it, one of the biggest issues we have with the site now is images, since we don't have actual easy contact with many of the sources or auhors of much of the federations immages, and have not ot manny immages speciffic to the federation of pangea. the problem is that for many immages it is hard to figure out if they have any form of ip protection, are original art or just something someone found somewhere, etc.

point 2, yes indeed, we do have little official social media things and actually Leon(ark) and I had also recently discussed this.
in the past the main ideas for media where to either showcase some peoples projects, but then it requires those people to work along with providing footage and want it to be put online, and things about the federation but we aren't really the types for boasting a lot, so we found out a better new way, of instead make content more related to filosophy, and help with things or how to follow or see such thigns. ofcource all based on the 3 ideals and some general micronation things that many micronations might want, this way instead of drawing in many random people who just want to boast, we draw in the exact right people. there will be no marketing about it being from the federation of pangea other than that people know that we are the federation of pangea, and so if they truly agree with such things or like our projects they will check out the federation itself.
that was the idea behind that. so instead of boasting about the nation like all companies, nations and micronations do, we will instead help people, and kind of give them education,support, help, insight, and some nice filosophical debates or ideas or such.

point 3, yes related to point 2, but for this we should have a team, based on mostly some of the core active people, basically working together, in some cases perhaps some things requiring general aproval, especially concerning newer members, or in cases where things might be on the dangerous edge of clashing with the ideals or misrepresenting them in a bad way. where sometimes a warning might work to notify watchers of that, but sometimes some things just should not be on the official channels. direct contact with users is great indeed also on those places, both with our own accouns or perhaps it might be possible to acces different parts of a channel or such.

point 4, yes, but that might require better networking or such to get into such places, and we also again should work together to know what should be said at such places, or we would need that still a little as well as someone who is very good at giving such talks, I know one such people he is one of the shadow lords behind some parts of things like extinction rebellion, I know he also has actually done such kind of things, don't know what about.
also actually yesterday I managed to get into contact with a second layer thing just under the dutch government. I also got invited for a national debate somewhere in february, how big and what it is and when exactly I don't know yet. But I do already have a plan to create the good kind of chaos, might also try to get that friend along. and concidered perhaps taking the federation of pangea flagg with me if I can make a good one or get a good one fast enough.
the only thing there is that I got invented as Daan van Loon the inventor/innovator who kind of invents many things and solves unsolvable problems with ease after companies or groups and the specialist companies they hired really couldn't find a way to fix it(actually also kind of a shaddow thing since most companies do not like investors or such to know I was involved, or how my solutions actually work), and not as Ellesar Dragon the president of the federation of pangea.

5th, yes and no. having a means to get money through them is great indeed. but it shouldn't hinder users so they should still have a way to use it unhindered. so for example if the site would have something like adds there should be a proxy/alernae url or directory of the site they can use where it is basically the same without adds means they have to actually chose to go there, but then they have the freedom to do so.
selling products or such would be a good thing and might work well, since it doesn't force thigns on users, setting up donation means might also work.
for the media channels it is more easy to monetize them perhaps, the problem there is that we first need to reach the level where people allow it to be monetized. again having a donation system would be more easy,
I actually got a idea for a simple better donation system we can set up, noticed it based on how people watch or read content and such, and how modern advertising works and how modern donation works, it is actually a revolutonairy donation system, since it actually is about micro donations of around 1 cent, €0,01 or $0,01+-, perhaps more if people set it to more.
but the reasoning behind this is because when people add adds to content, they get not even a fraction of that per vieuw.
also based on how much content people would watch, ofcource it also depens on platforms, but if we take youtube as example, ther it would work very well, since adds give almost no money, people are much less likely to make big donations and normal donation systems are inconvenient enough that people will only make a donation if it is conciderable. essentially what this would be is like some kind of database, people can run locally or acces online, and then they can either enter users and later just click or select them and add a certain amounts of units(which would be a round €0,01 per "unit"), or perhaps they might even be doable using some kind of api to automatically detect and do things or a plugin to add such things, then users also have the freedom to manage it themselves, and then once in a month or year or so or whenever they feel like it they can just pay for all donations at once for all different people, on youtube even someone who watches a ton of video's likely won't watch more than 100 good(this system was also based to actually reward people for making good stuf instead of money or add or algorythm optimized videos) video's per month, so even a youtube addict wouldn't be likely to get over €1 or $1 per month. we might also add a feature to allow people to get a notification or such after a certain time or treshold.
or to make it more easily (and greatly reduce fees and difficulty and danger) we could also make it work using a speciffic type of crypte currency such as monero, where people can directly buy monero to their wallet in that software or such, using some market or using a api or such to a broker. this way small transactions are much more easy, and the general process much safer and more easy as well, ofcource cryptos like bitcoin should be avoided, so only cryptos actually designed for the users and not used by megatraders or such, and with decent security atleast.

then ofcource they could alter the amount per unit, perhaps even the amount per unit depending on the channel or creator or such(speciffically to help support smaller channels and groups and such), since bigger groups can get millions of vieuws even if a quarter of them would donate 1 cent per unit, and 1 unit per good content seen, then it would result in 10k to 100k for such a average popular video, while small content creators are concidered lucky to reach a few k vieuws per good content over years, so a total of around €10 over many years if they are lucky, and ofcource amounts can be altered, and perhaps also allowing to customize the amount of units when adding for a speciffic content seen.
would work best and most easily if it would do many things automatically and people only need to set up a few settings.

this same software could also be used/linked to certain free open source projects. so that if you use them you can also just set small amounts based on if you use them or not, and also they still maintain full controll over it as to increase or reduce or even remove amounts befor paying in a easy way.

essentially see it like the netflix and such for donations, and then not a fixed subsription or such, but instead just paying when and what you feel like, but adding the conveinience to users so they are more likely to actually donate, also since in general with projects less than 0.0001% of users tend to actually donate, especially when looking at actual users even though sometimes their company donates some, but microdonations right now make little sense to do since they are a insane amount of work and contribute little, but with a system like this microdonations become very doable and even easy, and this means many people couls start using it and it would make it much more easy to let people start using it, especially by linking it to other platforms as well.
doing this would be better for culture since it makes donations more normal, but it also would be great for content creators who actually want to make good things, and developpers of Free Open Source, since those small amounts from so manny people add up a lot.

one thing however which should be added is the notion/memo so that users keep seeing it that micro donations are there to keep things running, but are not a alernative to actual donations/ not a reason to avoid giving actual bigger donations.
especially in some projects they also need bigger donations, this just would provide many good projects slightly more income as well as more stability and fairness, where even small groups and new people can get money.
I will contanct F.D. soon, he might have contacts which will come of use for something like this.
and this would work for the world, also for charities, might contact some of them as well.
but for this, this is one of those examples where it would be very great to first have a actual meeting and feedback behind it and kind of work out he concept better.


the meetups are a good idea, indeed, but also dangerous, I do agree we should do meetups, and also some serious things, but we should also maintain a lot of that except for some crucial things open enough to people, also we need to be very carefull and aware that this management group does not eventually put the ideas or ideals for money before the world, people, nature, or goals/ideals speciffically. we need to remember not to become a corporation but instead to remain the federation and this extra part would solely be to support the federation

In the beginning, we can manage those accounts ourselves so that we grow the presence of Pangaea. Then, once we have enough followers to monetize the accounts, we do that. And then later on in the future, we can have different people to manage the accounts and they will receive remuneration. 

If we are looking to sell merchandise, I think we need to have a presence first. That's because people need to know who we are and what we do before they purchase our merch with their money.
And if they believe in the cause, and would like to show our brand to the world, they may buy our merch.

So, I think we should focus on that first, and then we can think about starting an e-commerce site to sell our merch. And when we get there, Shopify is a great platform to sell our products.